Power of the pocket

[mozalt]

I have the pocket Of hermann Of supermicra of 24Se. It learned, that it is possible to decrease the power of pocket. Area of the house of 65 2. Prompt , “+” and” - “(decrease of power). Pocket on the guarantee. Very it is possible this to do or it is necessary to call engineer.

[J.Forfum]

Before the wall pocket are two they are adjusted the power - minimum and maximum, maximum can be regulated by program - by modulation (this that about which you you write) or it is iron - of the corresponding discharging jet of gas charging valve, and minimum - it is only iron.
Iron regulation influences both GVS and, programmed - only on . Programmed regulation will give to you nothing. But iron regulation will most likely also nothing give to you, because you should decrease the minimum power, but it in you most likely already minimum (on default), if no one wound.
Of j.Forfun (2308-91-1688:01: 40)

[Dennec]

is not understandable.
I would say on other:
There are controls of gas charging valve and there are controls of the board of control.
The controls of gas charging valve influence both the regime of the work of heating system and the preparation of hot water. Therefore they must simply correspond to factory adjustments. They will be checked and be regulated this must with the input of pocket beside the exploitation.





J.Forfun before the principle of laws - with this small load pocket nevertheless will attempt to move out down the minimum and will be turned off and the control of maximum power before the regime of heating here it will not strongly and help.
However, if room thermostat is connected down the pocket, then the control of the maximum power of the work of pocket before the regime of heating will help to bound the zoom of power, which it makes pocket after long idleness and will do its work of of smoother and more economical.
In other words: the control of the maximum power of pocket down the heating to make useful and desirably and make this must service engineer, being guided by the indications of micromanometer and by tabular values.

[J.Forfum]

Dennis wrote:
However, if room thermostat is connected down the pocket, then the control of the maximum power of the work of pocket before the regime of heating will help to bound the zoom of power, which it makes pocket after long idleness and will do its work of of smoother and more economical.
In the case cited why to limit power? indeed the logic of pocket - as soon as possible to move out down the preset temperature of heat carrier, and then by modulation to hold it. The regime of power exists from the point of view efficiency the most economical, not so whether?

[mozalt]

J.Forfun wrote
But iron regulation will most likely also nothing give to you, because you should decrease the minimum power, but it in you most likely already minimum (on default), if no one wound.
I think that no one turned nothing.

[J.Forfum]

mozart wrote:
I think that no one turned nothing.
This is good

[mozalt]

i.e., pocket does work before the minimum regime?

J.Forfun wrote:
indeed the logic of pocket - as soon as possible to move out down the preset temperature of heat carrier, and then by modulation to hold it. The regime of power exists from the point of view efficiency the most economical, not so whether?
if from the point of view of pocket, then yes. but it work nevertheless will not be against the maximum power. it should not be forgotten that pocket is connected down the heating system. and it is the often best execution. that the pocket effectively worked against the maximum, it must be not pressed and maximally inertial. then it is possible to speak about some percentages efficiency. the higher the power of pocket on the small heating system, the higher the difference supply -. i.e. pocket already heated supply to the displayed temperature, and (we read: unit ) still cold. efficiency of pocket can and it is above, and the efficiency of heating system is below. optimum version - when the power of pocket is approximating power . strictly, that the pocket on the placed algorithm tries to make.
those is more about what numbers efficiency of conversation? there are data?

[J.Forfum]

wrote:
on what numbers efficiency of conversation? there are data?
How do you do, according to and we are familiar, not so whether, there i have the same nick; -); therefore you know, I not skilled worker and do not have shaped formation, telling about the efficiency before the regime of heating against the maximum power and before minimum I judge as far as its system (similar as in that questioning) - , 702
system is not pressed, circulator works against the 1st velocity.
Panel convectors somewhere down 6, capacity of water before near 35. First I assumed that actually to pocket with “smooth heating” more easily - it works to itself - even not he .
Can to it and more easily, only with the transfer of pocket beside the mode of constant operation against the minimum power, the gas flow increases beside 1,5 than the case of “rapid heating”. Cycle (with the rapid heating) of such: 10 heating down 70 - 10 minutes of forced (it . to 50 degrees). Thermostat LT08 operates through three or four such cycle, then 1.5-2 hours of the complete sediment: -). Temp. in apartment 23… 24 degrees. Live we with you, as you remember, not far from each other: -).
What in me incorrectly or does not converge with the science?
Of j.Forfun (2508-01-1114:13: 27)

[mozalt]

So that, the transfer of pocket beside the minimum power, will give the gas flow 1,5 times. In me time lasts 8 minutes (they 5 heating down the temperature of 70 degrees and 3 minutes recovery to 60 degrees) thermostat it is absent.

[J.Forfum]

everything in you is normal - touch nothing

J.Forfun wrote:
What in me incorrectly or does not converge with the science?
I did not say that something in someone is not correct. there is the possibility to work against the maximum - it is good. simply there is call, the type: pocket badly works. and it begins. it is done against the level as the thought of in uncle Vanya before the head. I consider that down this area to do is not correctly very complicated, but they teach. the hence previous post.
and apropos the science… of “heavyweights” will be tightened and will explain, will be increased the gas flow 1.5 with the understating of the power of pocket.

[Yorej]

Here to me is not very clear physical meaning. How can it will be increased or decrease the gas flow before the separately undertaken system? Indeed for heating of one unit of water down the temperature is necessary the always definite quantity of gas.

the conversation of about efficiency of pocket before the different modes (power) of operation. i.e. exists the opinion that against the low power to third from the worked out heat (burnt gas) not of , but it flies away beside the tube.

[sondymon]

and everything began so good) "
Apropos the increase of expenditure 1,5 times with reduction in the power of pocket. Let in we be a house of 602 with the fixed losses 6 kilowatts. Room thermostat is connected down the pocket. Let us examine 2 cases:
1) pocket works with the factory installations. It is included for 3 minutes it works with a power of 24 kilowatts, it is turned off on 3 minutes and so on. I.e., it works 15 before the current of half-hour. Through half-hour of this work the temperature of air before the quarters will achieve 22 and thermostat will disconnect pocket down the floor of hour. In this case the consumption of fuel per hour of this work will comprise: 2,713/ * of 0,25 h = of 0,683 and the neutralized on the total operating time power of 6 kilowatts i.e., the arrival of heat beside the house corresponds to the heat losses of house, all .
2) pocket is disposed, i.e., its maximum power is underestimated and composes 50% of the nominal. Pocket is ignited and it achieves the power of 12 kilowatts (50% of the nominal). Pocket works by 6 minutes and stays 3 minutes, after 45 minutes this work (floor of the hour of the work +15 minutes of idleness) the temperature will be raised to 22 and thermostat will disconnect pocket down the floor of hour. pocket works by 30 minutes an hour with the power of 12. The power of 12 kilowatts the corresponding consumption of fuel of 1,36 3/ (about 2% reduction efficiency because of a decrease in the power of burner as that shameful and to speak) pocket altogether ate up the per hour neutralized works: 1,36*0,5=0,683. The neutralized power will be 6 kilowatts.
An example a little exaggerated but meaning I think clear. Not about what noticeable increase in the fuel consumption with reduction in the maximum power of pocket on the small heating systems to speak it is necessary. In practice with the high power of pocket it will be more frequent vkl- off than pocket with the power 2 times of less. Ideal case to place pocket power of which = to heat losses .

[Dennec]

I would add also that the work of pocket on lowered this is the more sparing regime for the pocket.
But well try common switch to pull on 10 times at the point of the hour and before the course of several months.
For long it in you prolong- that? But before the pocket there are many such switches
Well and furthermore certified efficiency against the minimum and maximum power is calculated with steady state (constant temperature of supply and + work before this regime not of 5-10 minutes) so that during jogging efficiency of pocket must be the considerably lower than certified, simply the methodologies of its measurement yet did not devise.

[J.Forfum]

sandyman
I can in no way it counter: -) - I can only thank at the point of the detailed explanation. But it is possible (I do love to be formed) to learn - about what formulas you do quantitatively determine how many minutes pocket will work at a temperature X against the power Y when it is known that against the power Z it will work by W of minutes in order to achieve the identical temperature of heat carrier?





http://i027.radihan.lu/0801/1d/
Dennis
I leave above the parentheses (he thought this by itself ) that more frequent start - this worse, and I examine efficiency only before one cycle.
Of j.Forfun (2003-01-1702:56: 01)

[Dennec]

Here a question not before the distance from flame tail to the heat exchanger, but before the relationship gas/air. Before all (eliminating condensation) cost the injector burners, before which air is drawn under beside the Venturi tube due to the gas pressure. Is changed the gas pressure - it is changed and relationship gas/air.
Naturally not about what relationship here and speech go no longer it can. The excess air ratio against the nominal yield 1,3 (i.e. 30% of excess air in the furnace it falls). Then it works without the friction units: it is cheap and it is reliable.
So here, the difference between the efficiency of pocket on by minimum and maximum power is caused only as far as incomplete combustion of fuel.

[J.Forfum]

Dennis wrote:
So here, the difference between the efficiency of pocket on by minimum and maximum power is caused only as far as incomplete combustion of fuel.
Even me did not answer that such OF : -).





In any event these are only my guesses and I cannot argue, if specialists speak reverse.
Of j.Forfun (2008-97-1712:27: 47)

[Dennec]

1. - means theoretically necessary for the complete combustion. For example, if for the combustion of 13 of gas necessarily of 10 3 of air the relation 1:10 will be in this specific case .
2. there is no hot air before the furnace (it is received before the heater and not before the furnace of pocket). There is a mixture of the incandescent gases, which are named combustion products.
3. after Venturi tube we obtain not hot air, but mixture of gas and air before the proportion 1:10 to multiply as far as the excess air ratio. But the reaction of oxidation of gas for the sake of the heat liberation already then occurs on the burner
4. air actually enters the furnace after the formation of flue gases, but its effect beyond the temperature of combustion products is insignificant as a result of its small quantity, and the high temperature of very combustion products.

Dennis wrote:
So here, the difference between the efficiency of pocket on by minimum and maximum power is caused only as far as incomplete combustion of fuel.
… does mean real efficiency of pocket with the atmospheric burner it does also lie exclusively against temperature and composition of the burnt gases?
gas analyzer and forward?
on the output of eolo of mini. good ports exists….
Of (0008-01-1575:10: 42)

[sondymon]

J.Forfun wrote:
sandyman
I can in no way it counter: -) - I can only thank at the point of the detailed explanation. But it is possible (I do love to be formed) to learn - about what formulas you do quantitatively determine how many minutes pocket will work at a temperature X against the power Y when it is known that against the power Z it will work by W of minutes in order to achieve the identical temperature of heat carrier?





It is shorter than the task of transient heat-mass transfer on the worker to me personally not on the teeth (yes surely and there are no such methodologies so as this entire beautifully to link) who will be able this all to do I will personally shake hand on the ceremony of the presentation to the Nobel Prize) "
In reality however turn but down the maintenance of the definite temperature before the house necessary to conduct a certain power (i.e., to compensate for the current heat losses). Power is this quantity of heat divided per unit of time. I.e., per hour you in the house with the heat losses 10 kilowatts should “master” where the 1,2 3 of gas. And you can it feed the length of hour by identical “stream” i.e., 20/ (in this case the temperature before the quarters it will be most even without the jumps, let us allow +20) or you can feed it “pulse” on 40/. but in the second case of more than the cycles OF VKL- OFF i.e., above deterioration of the equipment yes and the temperature of air will instead of the straight line for example from 19,5 to 20,5)

[J.Forfum]

Thanks at the point of the explanations

[Dennec]

2 - skillful address with the gas analyzer create the miracles

[mozalt]

With the frequent start of pocket not only deterioration of the equipment occurs, I think and the increased gas flow with each ignition (not stable regime).

[Andlej]

Dennis wrote:
..... Will be checked and be regulated this must with the input of pocket beside exploitation by .....
By this are occupied or who must implement such works?

certainly ! and what are versions?